Loss of assurance

[Carbon]

Even Christians who have enjoyed seasons of assured confidence of their right standoing before God can and do have their assurance of faith shaken. At such times, they feel the ebbing and flowing of their assurance. I know, because I have been there. The loss of assurance can be very disconcerting.

During these times, I have thought to myself, how can I regain a strong sense of assurance again? Will I ever? And how can I avoid loosing it again in the future?

Be sure of this one fact, Satan hates assurance, and will do everything he can to keep dubts and fears alive within us.

 

[Carbon]

The WCF 18.4 says:
4. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light: yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived; and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.

 

[Carbon]

It seems to me, the reason for a lack of assurance are found primarily in the believer. Which include, negligence in perservering, falling into a special or particular sin, and by the onslaught of a sudden, powerful temptation.

The puritan Anthony Burgess said,

It is true the most tender and exact godly ones, as Job and David are sometimes in desertions, and cry out God hath forsaken them, but ordinarily the more formal and carelesss we are in our approaches to God, the more are our doubts and fears.

Burgress said, that assurance may be hindered, even temporarly lost, for several reasons.
First, assurance can be diminished when we deeply feel the guilt of sin, for then we tend to look upon God as one who will take vengence rather than forgive.

Second, Satan hates assurance, and will do everything he can to keep dubts and fears alive within us.

Third, and most commonly, the hypocrisy of our hearts and careless living hinder assurance.

The WCF teaches us in 18.4 that we cannot enjoy high levels of genuine assurance as Christians if we persist in low levels of obedience.

 

[Carbon]

Before I go much further, I just want to say I do not want to discourage anyone, but encourage.
So let me mention, the Westminister Confession Ch 17, affirms that all who belong to Christ will perserve, for our perserverance is secured by our perservering, preservering God.

The Father perseveres in loving us, the Son perserveres interceeding for us, and the Spirit perserveres in abiding with us and working in us.

And remember God's promise to you, His own, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you." Hebrews 13.5.

 

[fastfredy0]

The WCF teaches us in 18.4 that we cannot enjoy high levels of genuine assurance as Christians if we persist in low levels of obedience.

Agreed. I state this as: To the extent we believe we obey.

they feel the ebbing and flowing of their assurance. I know, because I have been there.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm always there to some degree. There are millions that have full (or nearly full) assurance that are going to hell given they have polar opposite belief systems. Logically, I could be the one in the wrong. Obviously, I don't think so or I would change my mind.
"Narrow is the gate that leads to life," which is a Bible verse from Matthew 7:13, meaning that the path to true salvation is difficult and only a few will find it. Not exactly what one calls reassuring ... I hope the universalists are correct, but I'm not betting on it.

Test For Salvation (Marks Of A Born Again Christian)
1. Believing in Christ (Faith)
2. Repentance - Who Loves God will Obey God.
3. The Believer’s Salvation from the Love of Sin.
4. No Habitual Sinning, Strive to enter through the narrow gate.
5. Material possessions have little value and human issues are not particularly upsetting.
6. Humility.
7. Lose our own life to follow Him...
8. Press Forward unto Perfection, Love the Brethren.
9. Internal Testimony Of The Spirit Overcoming the World.
10. Spiritual Growth.
11. Peace.
12. Perseverance.
13. Persecution.

 

[Carbon]

Before I go much further, I just want to say I do not want to discourage anyone, but encourage.
So let me mention, the Westminister Confession Ch 17, affirms that all who belong to Christ will perserve, for our perserverance is secured by our perservering, preservering God.

The Father perseveres in loving us, the Son perserveres interceeding for us, and the Spirit perserveres in abiding with us and working in us.

And remember God's promise to you, His own, "I will never leave you, nor forsake you." Hebrews 13.5.

So, when we lack assurance, the responsibility is ours. No enemy can keep us out of heaven, but we sure can keep heaven out of our hearts by sinning against God.

 

[Carbon]

Agreed. I state this as: To the extent we believe we obey.


Yeah, I hear you. I'm always there to some degree. There are millions that have full (or nearly full) assurance that are going to hell given they have polar opposite belief systems. Logically, I could be the one in the wrong. Obviously, I don't think so or I would change my mind.
"Narrow is the gate that leads to life," which is a Bible verse from Matthew 7:13, meaning that the path to true salvation is difficult and only a few will find it. Not exactly what one calls reassuring ... I hope the universalists are correct, but I'm not betting on it.

Test For Salvation (Marks Of A Born Again Christian)
1. Believing in Christ (Faith)
2. Repentance - Who Loves God will Obey God.
3. The Believer’s Salvation from the Love of Sin.
4. No Habitual Sinning, Strive to enter through the narrow gate.
5. Material possessions have little value and human issues are not particularly upsetting.
6. Humility.
7. Lose our own life to follow Him...
8. Press Forward unto Perfection, Love the Brethren.
9. Internal Testimony Of The Spirit Overcoming the World.
10. Spiritual Growth.
11. Peace.
12. Perseverance.
13. Persecution.

Amen brother!

 

[fastfredy0]

Amen brother!

I like the verse ....

“I believe; help my unbelief”​

... heck, we always come up short in God's eyes. Got to rely on imputation to make up the difference.

 

[Carbon]

I like the verse ....

“I believe; help my unbelief”​

Yes, me also. Often when I am lacking or loosing assurance, I pray that God will restore the joy of my salvation. But it occured to me (I'm a very slow learner) the responsibility and blame is mine. As the WCF says, "we cannot enjoy high levels of genuine assurance as Christians if we persist in low levels of obedience."
A better prayer would be, Lord I believe, help my unbelief.

I ask for the restoring the joy of salvation when I am feeling the effects of my disobedience and lack of faith. I seem to act as if its all okay if I live that way. How often I forget how sinfull sin is. I need constant reminders, and I need the gospel daily.

 

[fastfredy0]

Yes, me also. Often when I am lacking or loosing assurance, I pray that God will restore the joy of my salvation. But it occured to me (I'm a very slow learner) the responsibility and blame is mine. A the WCF says, "we cannot enjoy high levels of genuine assurance as Christians if we persist in low levels of obedience."
A better prayer would be, Lord I believe, help my unbelief.

I ask for the restoring the joy of salvation when I am feeling the effects of my disobedience and lack of faith. I seem to act as if its all okay if I live that way. How often I forget how sinfull sin is. I need constant reminders, and I need the gospel daily.

I think I will insert this into my autobiography. Have a good one Carbon.

 

[Carbon]

As Dr. Joel R. Beeke says,

We wander from the faith and have to retrace our steps and begin afresh to walk in the ways of God.

 

[makesends]

Even Christians who have enjoyed seasons of assured confidence of their right standoing before God can and do have their assurance of faith shaken. At such times, they feel the ebbing and flowing of their assurance. I know, because I have been there. The loss of assurance can be very disconcerting.

During these times, I have thought to myself, how can I regain a strong sense of assurance again? Will I ever? And how can I avoid loosing it again in the future?

Be sure of this one fact, Satan hates assurance, and will do everything he can to keep dubts and fears alive within us.

The assurance I have found in the knowledge of God doing exactly in every detail what he set out to do from the beginning, and doing it with such grace and tenderlovingkindness, patience and mercy, yet with the power of his burning purity —I could go on and on—elicits a joy in being allowed to even watch him do it! (I'm sorry for how that sounds, because I have heard sarcastic remarks enough to know it sounds, well, prideful or something.) But I mention it to say this, that my fear of hell and God's retribution has pretty much dissolved into this enjoyment of his joy. I'm not sure that's entirely a good thing, but it certainly is a happy thing.

It seems to me, the reason for a lack of assurance are found primarily in the believer. Which include, negligence in perservering, falling into a special or particular sin, and by the onslaught of a sudden, powerful temptation.

The puritan Anthony Burgess said,

It is true the most tender and exact godly ones, as Job and David are sometimes in desertions, and cry out God hath forsaken them, but ordinarily the more formal and carelesss we are in our approaches to God, the more are our doubts and fears.

Burgress said, that assurance may be hindered, even temporarly lost, for several reasons.
First, assurance can be diminished when we deeply feel the guilt of sin, for then we tend to look upon God as one who will take vengence rather than forgive.

This last, of Burgress, is to me not a question of vengeance, but rather simply, that my rebellion is the same as that of a self-willed reprobate. I don't fit the many descriptions in Scriptures of those who are In Him. That is to say, that I'm not even looking upon God, but on myself. After all he has done for me, to include to setting me back on the firm path and giving me every grace for which I begged him and opening my eyes, and after all I know that is discarded by my sin, I can purposely turn away from him for my momentary satisfactions/enjoyments. I wonder sometimes if God won't turn my heart to stone like he did to Nabal (1 Sam 25). It hurts to turn away from him.

And I am left with no recourse but to talk to him about it, and throw myself once again upon his mercy.

One thing gives me pause, here, that even when I am sinning, and unrepentant, I find myself still, perhaps by habit(?), still enjoying the fact of God's greatness, sovereignty and even his delight in what he is doing! It is scary when I find myself there! WHY? HOW? I tell myself I'm being a fool, and, that that kind of love (mine) is unhinged. But I do have to say that that enjoyment is very much diminished in those situations.

Second, Satan hates assurance, and will do everything he can to keep dubts and fears alive within us.

Third, and most commonly, the hypocrisy of our hearts and careless living hinder assurance.

The WCF teaches us in 18.4 that we cannot enjoy high levels of genuine assurance as Christians if we persist in low levels of obedience.

Amen all!

 

[makesends]

Amen brother!

I vote we get an 'Agree' emoji.

 

[makesends]

As Dr. Joel R. Beeke says,

We wander from the faith and have to retrace our steps and begin afresh to walk in the ways of God.

I can't help but disagree with this, depending on what he means. The general thought of Christians of my ilk in the 60's and 70's, who thought the duty of the believer is not just obedience, but to go beyond the commands to figuring out 'God's will for your life', and to head that direction. I'm sorry if this offends here, but to me that borders on divination. 'Nuff said; my point is that such a mindset also usually teaches that God can't do what he has planned ["for my life"] until we do what he commands. And that, to me, is heresy. But I digress.

That first paragraph was written, to say this: Back in the 'olden days', there was a Christian Rock group called Gentle Faith. One line in one of their songs had to do with repentance after sinning, "...and you have all that lost time to make up for...". Even from before I began to understand what so closely resembles Reformed Theology, I saw that was wrong. We need not retrace our steps back to where we left off. It is not OUR time, but God's work. That road we were on, we are still on, by repentance. God did not just allow us to sin —he intended it, for a REASON. We go on from here!

There is no set personal goal for us to strain after, but what God is sure to accomplish according to his own time. And most remarkably and (haha!) indigestible to those insisting on self-determination, God uses our sin to bring us to know and love him more specifically and wholly. It's not just gratitude to him for his mercy, but learning more about his glory, holiness, love, patience, wisdom, eternal purposes and so on, in astonishing detail!

What, then? —Shall we sin that Grace may abound??? NO!!!! (But I have, and it does.)

 

[Mr GLee]

I can't help but disagree with this, depending on what he means. The general thought of Christians of my ilk in the 60's and 70's, who thought the duty of the believer is not just obedience, but to go beyond the commands to figuring out 'God's will for your life', and to head that direction. I'm sorry if this offends here, but to me that borders on divination. 'Nuff said; my point is that such a mindset also usually teaches that God can't do what he has planned ["for my life"] until we do what he commands. And that, to me, is heresy. But I digress.

That first paragraph was written, to say this: Back in the 'olden days', there was a Christian Rock group called Gentle Faith. One line in one of their songs had to do with repentance after sinning, "...and you have all that lost time to make up for...". Even from before I began to understand what so closely resembles Reformed Theology, I saw that was wrong. We need not retrace our steps back to where we left off. It is not OUR time, but God's work. That road we were on, we are still on, by repentance. God did not just allow us to sin —he intended it, for a REASON. We go on from here!

There is no set personal goal for us to strain after, but what God is sure to accomplish according to his own time. And most remarkably and (haha!) indigestible to those insisting on self-determination, God uses our sin to bring us to know and love him more specifically and wholly. It's not just gratitude to him for his mercy, but learning more about his glory, holiness, love, patience, wisdom, eternal purposes and so on, in astonishing detail!

What, then? —Shall we sin that Grace may abound??? NO!!!! (But I have, and it does.)

Yes the name it claim it faithless oral tradition

It would seem many put the cart before the horse.. . plow before the bullock

Signs to wonder, wonder, wonder after. Sign seekers (no end belief ) Rather than prohecy an anchor to our new born again soul. .

Like Nicodenmus a sign and wonder seeker . When the Father gave words to His prophet Jesus revealing the greatest of all miracles . Mankind must be born again . He lovingly commanded him to marvel or wonder not but rather repent believe.. . . the living word . It would appear he did believe the gospel call . .seen later with other apostles.

They made Jesus the Son of man into a circus seal Work some magic then when we se with our own eyes then we will believe for a half a second ..

God is no longer bring new revelation. Satan's only voice. King of lying signs to wonder after.

God still sending a strong delusion to any who violate (sola scriptura) adding or subtracting from the perfect.

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

We have no power to repent and do the first works of Christ (believe God not seen) .He must first give us his trustworthy powerful faith as a labor of his (let there be) Love .

Some non venerable were giving thier faith or understanding by their fleshly leaders. Like Nicodemus in Revelation 2: (acting as a Pope)

Revelations2: 4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. (believe God not seen) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; (believe God not seen) or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.

 

[Carbon]

I can't help but disagree with this, depending on what he means. The general thought of Christians of my ilk in the 60's and 70's, who thought the duty of the believer is not just obedience, but to go beyond the commands to figuring out 'God's will for your life', and to head that direction. I'm sorry if this offends here, but to me that borders on divination. 'Nuff said; my point is that such a mindset also usually teaches that God can't do what he has planned ["for my life"] until we do what he commands. And that, to me, is heresy. But I digress.

That first paragraph was written, to say this: Back in the 'olden days', there was a Christian Rock group called Gentle Faith. One line in one of their songs had to do with repentance after sinning, "...and you have all that lost time to make up for...". Even from before I began to understand what so closely resembles Reformed Theology, I saw that was wrong. We need not retrace our steps back to where we left off. It is not OUR time, but God's work. That road we were on, we are still on, by repentance. God did not just allow us to sin —he intended it, for a REASON. We go on from here!

There is no set personal goal for us to strain after, but what God is sure to accomplish according to his own time. And most remarkably and (haha!) indigestible to those insisting on self-determination, God uses our sin to bring us to know and love him more specifically and wholly. It's not just gratitude to him for his mercy, but learning more about his glory, holiness, love, patience, wisdom, eternal purposes and so on, in astonishing detail!

What, then? —Shall we sin that Grace may abound??? NO!!!! (But I have, and it does.)

Excellent!

And I agree.

And so would Beeke.
I’ll explain later when I get back home

 

[fastfredy0]

I vote we get an 'Agree' emoji.

Agreed ... I use the LIKE to mean "Agree"

 

[makesends]

Agreed ... I use the LIKE to mean "Agree"

I don't. Finally! We disagree on something!

 

[fastfredy0]

I don't. Finally! We disagree on something!

I guess I made my first mistake then.

 

[Carbon]

I can't help but disagree with this, depending on what he means. The general thought of Christians of my ilk in the 60's and 70's, who thought the duty of the believer is not just obedience, but to go beyond the commands to figuring out 'God's will for your life', and to head that direction. I'm sorry if this offends here, but to me that borders on divination. 'Nuff said; my point is that such a mindset also usually teaches that God can't do what he has planned ["for my life"] until we do what he commands. And that, to me, is heresy. But I digress.

That first paragraph was written, to say this: Back in the 'olden days', there was a Christian Rock group called Gentle Faith. One line in one of their songs had to do with repentance after sinning, "...and you have all that lost time to make up for...". Even from before I began to understand what so closely resembles Reformed Theology, I saw that was wrong. We need not retrace our steps back to where we left off. It is not OUR time, but God's work. That road we were on, we are still on, by repentance. God did not just allow us to sin —he intended it, for a REASON. We go on from here!

There is no set personal goal for us to strain after, but what God is sure to accomplish according to his own time. And most remarkably and (haha!) indigestible to those insisting on self-determination, God uses our sin to bring us to know and love him more specifically and wholly. It's not just gratitude to him for his mercy, but learning more about his glory, holiness, love, patience, wisdom, eternal purposes and so on, in astonishing detail!

What, then? —Shall we sin that Grace may abound??? NO!!!! (But I have, and it does.)

Burgess said nothing will darken our souls more than dull, lazy, and negligent walking. If assurance remains high while obedience falters, we may be taking our astounding privilege of adopted sonship for granted and growing spiritually lazy. Knowing that backsliding diminishes assurance ought to keep us active in searching our souls and pursuing hioliness.