Hello

[Arial]

Looking forward to good conversations.

 

[ReverendRV]

Welcome to CCAM!

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Looking forward to good conversations.

Ahh, we meet again! I think I will have to remain on this forum instead of Worthy forums, as there are many Arminians there!

 

[Arial]

There are more Calvinist/Reformed there than I have found on any other site but only the Arminians seem to want to "discuss" or know what C/R actually teaches. And discuss is being polite for it is nothing but fighting and demeaning. Now when I post a thread not even having to do with the subject (the latest was the difference between theology and doctrine and why it is important to know the difference) I got two responses, both staff members on the A side. One repeated what I said as though I hadn't said it. The other a rundown of the meaning of Greek words, having nothing to do with a conversation about the thread. Neither were posted to me, but to no one or each other.

I think I became a pariah when I made a stink about the way A's phrase their opinions, painting the theology (and by extension those who believe it is what the Bible teaches, and often done by moderators) in the most defamatory descriptive terms that in no way align with the teachings of C/R. I am sure you have heard them all. It amounts to condemning, judging, assaulting, mocking, persecuting the brethren. A big no, no according to instructions given to Christ's church.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with the theology or some the doctrines contained within it. What was once deemed heresy is pretty much all that has been taught to everyone alive now. And though it affects many things and our understanding of God and the Bible, I do not believe it affects salvation. We have Charles Finney among others to blame for breaching those walls, the foundation laid by the apostles that was all but lost during the dark ages and was brought back through the Reformation.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

There are more Calvinist/Reformed there than I have found on any other site but only the Arminians seem to want to "discuss" or know what C/R actually teaches. And discuss is being polite for it is nothing but fighting and demeaning. Now when I post a thread not even having to do with the subject (the latest was the difference between theology and doctrine and why it is important to know the difference) I got two responses, both staff members on the A side. One repeated what I said as though I hadn't said it. The other a rundown of the meaning of Greek words, having nothing to do with a conversation about the thread. Neither were posted to me, but to no one or each other.

I think I became a pariah when I made a stink about the way A's phrase their opinions, painting the theology (and by extension those who believe it is what the Bible teaches, and often done by moderators) in the most defamatory descriptive terms that in no way align with the teachings of C/R. I am sure you have heard them all. It amounts to condemning, judging, assaulting, mocking, persecuting the brethren. A big no, no according to instructions given to Christ's church.

I have no problem with people disagreeing with the theology or some the doctrines contained within it. What was once deemed heresy is pretty much all that has been taught to everyone alive now. And though it affects many things and our understanding of God and the Bible, I do not believe it affects salvation. We have Charles Finney among others to blame for breaching those walls, the foundation laid by the apostles that was all but lost during the dark ages and was brought back through the Reformation.

There was another poster there called David and he had a run in with "FreeGrace" (I think that is their name), no matter how many times things were corrected, he just would repeat himself over and over again and not learn. Then David left the forums. He was a very intelligent and knowledgeable person and I felt a big support gone. Others have left in the same way.

I will be censored there for saying absolutely nothing wrong. Absolutely NOTHING. I don't breach any of the forum rules ever. They are a very intolerable crowd in general. Which is a shame. I do often wonder if many of them are even saved to begin with.

 

[Arial]

There was another poster there called David and he had a run in with "FreeGrace" (I think that is their name), no matter how many times things were corrected, he just would repeat himself over and over again and not learn. Then David left the forums. He was a very intelligent and knowledgeable person and I felt a big support gone. Others have left in the same way.

I will be censored there for saying absolutely nothing wrong. Absolutely NOTHING. I don't breach any of the forum rules ever. They are a very intolerable crowd in general. Which is a shame. I do often wonder if many of them are even saved to begin with.

There was a poster doing the same thing to me. One thing he would say was that in Calvinism there is no need for the crucifixion if a person is predestined to hell or heaven. Which is a ludicrous statement. I started by pointing out the difference between destined and predestined. All are destined for hell because all will sin. Guaranteed. So it still takes the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ to substitute His life for theirs as taking the just penalty for their sins, and it still takes having faith in this and in Jesus alone for eternal life, and one still has to hear the gospel and believe it. He just kept repeating himself, getting more and more vile in his depiction of Calvinists. He hasn't been around that forum for awhile.

It is the same brick wall when trying to point out that in the NT never, not once, in regards to believing, etc. are the words choose, decide, or any word related to choosing ever used. Those words have to be blatantly read into the scriptures.

And all that aside----I like this format much better. For as long as Worthy has been around their format leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Looking forward to good conversations.

Howdy!

 

[ChristB4us]

There was another poster there called David and he had a run in with "FreeGrace" (I think that is their name), no matter how many times things were corrected, he just would repeat himself over and over again and not learn. Then David left the forums. He was a very intelligent and knowledgeable person and I felt a big support gone. Others have left in the same way.

I will be censored there for saying absolutely nothing wrong. Absolutely NOTHING. I don't breach any of the forum rules ever. They are a very intolerable crowd in general. Which is a shame. I do often wonder if many of them are even saved to begin with.

We are not to judge as in condemn other professing believers in that way but judge as in correcting the issues instead, in the hope that the Lord will lead them to repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

In 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter, Paul is addressing the falling away of the faith in the latter days and did touched on that the iniquity was at work even in his day and how they are condemned that believe not the truth, but believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation and by a sign too for why God will permit that strong delusion to occur in verses 9-12.

Paul reminded believers of the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel in verses 13-15 to expose that lie for what it is in verses 9-12.

Now Jesus said He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him per John 6:39 and so discernment is needed. If we look at 2 timothy 2:10-13, in the atter half of verse 12, we see that former believers that would verbally deny him, He will deny them, but in verse 13, even though they believe not in Him any more, He still abides. So they can be denied by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event ( unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes ) and yet still saved because He abides in them still albeit left behind to die, but their spirts will be with the Lord ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, to serve the King of kings on earth but still in His House. So that is the condemnation awaiting those who do not depart from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:18-22.

So they are still saved as Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter in going into 2 Thessalonians 3rd chapter where we are to pray that the word of the Lord will have free course and that we be delivered from wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith, that no longer walk after the tradition taught of us and are disorderly as we are commanded by the Lord in touching us to withdraw ourselves from them in verses 1-7 BUT we are not to do that as in treating them as the enemy, but admonishing them as brothers still because they are still brothers per verses 14-15 as they are still saved for why they should be called to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes or else be denied by Him for being in unrepentant iniquity Titus 1:16 & Matthew 7:21-23 & get left behind from the Marriage Supper in not sitting down with O.T. saints in Heaven per Luke 13:24-30.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

There was a poster doing the same thing to me. One thing he would say was that in Calvinism there is no need for the crucifixion if a person is predestined to hell or heaven. Which is a ludicrous statement. I started by pointing out the difference between destined and predestined. All are destined for hell because all will sin. Guaranteed. So it still takes the life, death, resurrection and ascension of Christ to substitute His life for theirs as taking the just penalty for their sins, and it still takes having faith in this and in Jesus alone for eternal life, and one still has to hear the gospel and believe it. He just kept repeating himself, getting more and more vile in his depiction of Calvinists. He hasn't been around that forum for awhile.

It is the same brick wall when trying to point out that in the NT never, not once, in regards to believing, etc. are the words choose, decide, or any word related to choosing ever used. Those words have to be blatantly read into the scriptures.

And all that aside----I like this format much better. For as long as Worthy has been around their format leaves a lot to be desired.

Oh yes, I saw your exchanges with him. He doesn't budge even when corrected. I believe he claims that there is a difference between chosen for salvation and chosen to serve. There's no way an honest person can get their head around that distinction based on what the Bible actually says. Do you think it is a form of spiritual blindness at work? The amount of times the New Testament says God CHOSE us etc., is legion, so it boggles my mind why a person like that can't see it.

Oh yes, Worthy is an old internet format forum, which is why it seems old! This format is much better.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

We are not to judge as in condemn other professing believers in that way but judge as in correcting the issues instead, in the hope that the Lord will lead them to repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

In 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter, Paul is addressing the falling away of the faith in the latter days and did touched on that the iniquity was at work even in his day and how they are condemned that believe not the truth, but believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation and by a sign too for why God will permit that strong delusion to occur in verses 9-12.

Paul reminded believers of the tradition taught of us that we had received the sanctification of the spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel in verses 13-15 to expose that lie for what it is in verses 9-12.

Now Jesus said He will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him per John 6:39 and so discernment is needed. If we look at 2 timothy 2:10-13, in the atter half of verse 12, we see that former believers that would verbally deny him, He will deny them, but in verse 13, even though they believe not in Him any more, He still abides. So they can be denied by Him at the pre great tribulation rapture event ( unless they repent before the Bridegroom comes ) and yet still saved because He abides in them still albeit left behind to die, but their spirts will be with the Lord ( 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 ) to await for their resurrection after the great tribulation Revelation 6:9-11 & Revelation 7:9-17 as vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth, to serve the King of kings on earth but still in His House. So that is the condemnation awaiting those who do not depart from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:18-22.

So they are still saved as Paul goes on to address those that have fallen away from the faith in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter in going into 2 Thessalonians 3rd chapter where we are to pray that the word of the Lord will have free course and that we be delivered from wicked and unreasonable men that have not faith, that no longer walk after the tradition taught of us and are disorderly as we are commanded by the Lord in touching us to withdraw ourselves from them in verses 1-7 BUT we are not to do that as in treating them as the enemy, but admonishing them as brothers still because they are still brothers per verses 14-15 as they are still saved for why they should be called to depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom comes or else be denied by Him for being in unrepentant iniquity Titus 1:16 & Matthew 7:21-23 & get left behind from the Marriage Supper in not sitting down with O.T. saints in Heaven per Luke 13:24-30.

I did not condemn anybody. I question a person's salvation when the major tenor of their views do not line up with scripture.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Oh yes, I saw your exchanges with him. He doesn't budge even when corrected. I believe he claims that there is a difference between chosen for salvation and chosen to serve. There's no way an honest person can get their head around that distinction based on what the Bible actually says. Do you think it is a form of spiritual blindness at work? The amount of times the New Testament says God CHOSE us etc., is legion, so it boggles my mind why a person like that can't see it.

Oh yes, Worthy is an old internet format forum, which is why it seems old! This format is much better.

That just hurts my head. On the flip side ( mind you with absolutely NO context...I'm just winging a possible ) take a look at Judas. Definitely chosen to serve a purpose of God's. Definitely not chosen for salvation.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

That just hurts my head. On the flip side ( mind you with absolutely NO context...I'm just winging a possible ) take a look at Judas. Definitely chosen to serve a purpose of God's. Definitely not chosen for salvation.

Well, what does "chosen to serve" mean when it is used to explicate the meaning of scriptures talking about election? I don't think that works.

Besides, God chooses everybody in the Bible. Double Predestination, if you will? God used Judas and God used many people in the Bible to accomplish his ends and not all of them were saved.

 

[ChristB4us]

I did not condemn anybody. I question a person's salvation when the major tenor of their views do not line up with scripture.

This below was mainly my concern.

I will be censored there for saying absolutely nothing wrong. Absolutely NOTHING. I don't breach any of the forum rules ever. They are a very intolerable crowd in general. Which is a shame. I do often wonder if many of them are even saved to begin with.

You had wondered whether most of them were saved to begin with and even in thought, we are to be careful not to judge them in that manner les we deny the One that bought them in thought & heart when they are His. This is why we are to correct them anyway in warning even former believers to go before that throne of grace for help to see the lies that turned them away from Him so they can repent before the Bridegroom comes. Sometimes thoughts can lead us into making a definitive judgment in how we treat the wayward.

You may have come across some that actually do it as saying they are not saved even to that professing believer even though that is not allowed in any Christian forum and usually get deleted.

Anyway, an example of why we should not wonder if they are saved or not but wonder instead of the Lord will recover them by the word you share to correct them and edify them by..

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I am under moderation at that forum and so I just leave that in the Lord's hands.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Welcome aboard, Sis!!

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

This below was mainly my concern.



You had wondered whether most of them were saved to begin with and even in thought, we are to be careful not to judge them in that manner les we deny the One that bought them in thought & heart when they are His. This is why we are to correct them anyway in warning even former believers to go before that throne of grace for help to see the lies that turned them away from Him so they can repent before the Bridegroom comes. Sometimes thoughts can lead us into making a definitive judgment in how we treat the wayward.

You may have come across some that actually do it as saying they are not saved even to that professing believer even though that is not allowed in any Christian forum and usually get deleted.

Anyway, an example of why we should not wonder if they are saved or not but wonder instead of the Lord will recover them by the word you share to correct them and edify them by..

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I am under moderation at that forum and so I just leave that in the Lord's hands.

I did not wonder that they are saved or not. When the overall tenor of their consistent and constant heresy perpetually revolves and doesn't get sorted out, I am left with no choice but to believe such people are not even saved. And I'm sorry if that offends anybody on a Christian forum, but I didn't come here to get banned the first day I joined!! And I don't believe your telling me I condemned someone was accurate anyway.

It is quite possible to judge a person's salvation and it is quite easy to do, too. What we do not want to do is question a person's salvation when it is obvious they have been saved. But even then, it can be hard to tell sometimes, which is why we generally have restraint in that area.

 

[Carbon]

Looking forward to good conversations.

Warm welcome. Hope you enjoy the forum..

Blessings

 

[Fred]

A hearty welcome to you.

 

[Arial]

Oh yes, I saw your exchanges with him. He doesn't budge even when corrected. I believe he claims that there is a difference between chosen for salvation and chosen to serve. There's no way an honest person can get their head around that distinction based on what the Bible actually says. Do you think it is a form of spiritual blindness at work? The amount of times the New Testament says God CHOSE us etc., is legion, so it boggles my mind why a person like that can't see it.

Oh yes, Worthy is an old internet format forum, which is why it seems old! This format is much better.

It could just be human stubborness and right fighting. I can't remark beyond that as I have no ability to see in anyone's heart. I think there is an inherent fear of God being responsible for our coming to Christ and not ourselves. That too is a part of our fallen nature---the very first part in fact---not trusting God. And also, hopefully, none consider that there is anything about themselves that God would choose, and that makes them afraid. It is hard to accept the fact after years of being taught that we must choose, to rest in the fact that they believe and that is what matters.

If I had begun my Christian walk knowing of and believing the C/R position of predestination I may have railed against God. But I spent the first 22 years of the 40 years believing it was my choice that brought Christ into my life. I knew nothing of Calvinism. But I took to it like a duck to water, it filled a hunger and thirst I had to hear and learn about God, something more than all the felt needs and benefits that left my growth stagnant. I wanted to know HIM, not just of Him. So when I learned of predestination and the other doctrines within the acronym, I already knew I believed, though I must say, there for awhile it felt like being born again all over again.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Well, what does "chosen to serve" mean when it is used to explicate the meaning of scriptures talking about election? I don't think that works.

See? Context helps.

Besides, God chooses everybody in the Bible. Double Predestination, if you will? God used Judas and God used many people in the Bible to accomplish his ends and not all of them were saved.

Er...that proves my point. Some chosen to serve, some chosen to be saved. One hopes that the ones chosen to be saved actually serve as well but...you know...thief on the cross.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Worm welcome. Hope you enjoy the forum..

Blessings

Welcoming worms on here now?