God as the Center of the Universe

[Arial]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

 

[fastfredy0]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

God cannot will any other thing but himself as his end, because there is nothing superior to himself in goodness. Stephen Charnock - Existence and Attributes of God

God cannot so properly be said to make the creature his end, as himself. For the creature is not as yet considered as existing. Edwards, Jonathan. The Complete Works of Jonathan Edwards

As there is none more excellent than himself, nothing can be his end but himself (sola Deo Gloria); as he is the cause of all, so he is the end of all; “Of him, and through him, and to him, are all things” (Romans 11:36).

Isaiah 43:7 says that God created us for His glory.

WCF Chapter 2.1- “Working all things according to the counsel of his own immutable and most righteous will, for his own glory”. Isaiah 42:8 “I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.

Proverbs 16:4 it is said expressly, "The Lord hath made all things for himself."

Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers; all things were created by him, and for him."

Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]”

 

[John Bauer]

In creation, both what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Is man the center? Not independently, not ultimately, and not ontologically.

But in the economy of God’s covenantal dealings, man is (a) created as God's image-bearer to whom and in whom God reveals himself, (b) the focus of divine redemption, (c) the assumed nature in the incarnation, (d) the dwelling place of the Spirit of God, and (e) the bride of Christ in glory. So, although man is not the ontological or metaphysical center of the universe, he is functionally and redemptively central in the divine plan. In that sense—and only in that sense—one could argue that man is the center of the universe.

The original claim—"man is never the center of the universe"—is ultimately true when measured against God's intrinsic supremacy and theocentric teleology. But a counter-argument can be sustained within the framework of God's covenantal economy, namely, God made man central to his redemptive and incarnational purposes. And that is likewise a form of centering—albeit always derivative, dependent, and for God's glory.

There is certainly a Christological argument for the conclusion that man is (at least in some carefully nuanced sense) the center of the universe: The Son of God became man, which is the most radical centering of humanity in all of reality. He did not assume angelic or some animal nature. Not only that but this humanity isn't a temporary cloak but now and forever hypostatically united to the divine nature. In Christ, manhood is joined to Godhead, the glorified Christ reigning bodily from heaven, whose human nature participates in the eternal rule of the cosmos. That which was dust is now seated at the right hand of majesty. That reaches beyond inclusion to exaltation.

"For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, ..." (Heb 2:16-17).

 

[Arial]

Is man the center? Not independently, not ultimately, and not ontologically.

But in the economy of God’s covenantal dealings, man is (a) created as God's image-bearer to whom and in whom God reveals himself, (b) the focus of divine redemption, (c) the assumed nature in the incarnation, (d) the dwelling place of the Spirit of God, and (e) the bride of Christ in glory. So, although man is not the ontological or metaphysical center of the universe, he is functionally and redemptively central in the divine plan. In that sense—and only in that sense—one could argue that man is the center of the universe.

The original claim—"man is never the center of the universe"—is ultimately true when measured against God's intrinsic supremacy and theocentric teleology. But a counter-argument can be sustained within the framework of God's covenantal economy, namely, God made man central to his redemptive and incarnational purposes. And that is likewise a form of centering—albeit always derivative, dependent, and for God's glory.

There is certainly a Christological argument for the conclusion that man is (at least in some carefully nuanced sense) the center of the universe: The Son of God became man, which is the most radical centering of humanity in all of reality. He did not assume angelic or some animal nature. Not only that but this humanity isn't a temporary cloak but now and forever hypostatically united to the divine nature. In Christ, manhood is joined to Godhead, the glorified Christ reigning bodily from heaven, whose human nature participates in the eternal rule of the cosmos. That which was dust is now seated at the right hand of majesty. That reaches beyond inclusion to exaltation.

"For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, ..." (Heb 2:16-17).

You bring up some very good points about man's created position in the world. As the only creation that is created in the image and likeness of God. As given dominion over the earth as stewards of the creation,( but not sovereign over it). And as man's unique role in God's plan of redemption shown by the Son coming as one of us. However, the original statement of man never being the center of creation was not disproved, imo.

Here is why.

The Covenant of Redemption (pactum salutis). This pre-temporal agreement among Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to redeem a people for God's glory. Not man's exaltation.

The redemptive work of Christ resulted in: the destruction of Satan, sin and death (1 John 3:8; Heb 2:14); the reconciliation of all things to God (Col.1:20); a new creation (2 Cor 5:17; Rev 21:1-8; Isa 11).

Man is the intended means by which God's glory in redemption is displayed, but never the center (Eph 1:6,12,14). Christ becomes a man, not to glorify humanity but to glorify the triune God through victory. The church, as the redeemed by Christ, display his mercy, justice, and grace (Eph 3:10).

Man indeed plays a crucial role as recipient and instrument, but he is never the end or the center. That belongs always to God.

 

[Tambora]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Since the universe is creation, I believe mankind (who was part of creation) was the central point of it.

 

[Carbon]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Ummmm, man isn't the center of the universe....?




Are you serious?

 

[CrowCross]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Col 1:17 tells us.....He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Man is not the center of the universe...Jesus is. Man wasn't before all things. Man doesn't hold all things together.

 

[Arial]

Since the universe is creation, I believe mankind (who was part of creation) was the central point of it.

Indeed mankind was the crowning glory of his creation. But we are his servants over creation, and are serving his purposes in redemption.

 

[miss managed]

There is no center of the universe.

 

[CrowCross]

There is no center of the universe.

Yes there is.....I "flew" out there once...in the spirit or not I don't know.
There is a monument in the center pretty much like the 4 corner monument where Arizona, Colorado, Utah and Florida meet.

If you ever went there you would know there is a center.

 

[Josheb]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Man is definitely NOT the center of the universe, but some clarification is warranted.

When the phrase "center of the universe" is used it generally means the reference point by which meaning is measured. That meaning can pertain to morality or purpose, or some other concern of human contemplation and practice. The phrase is generally not used in reference to humans being the geographic or physical center of the universe. We are not in the physical middle of the universe. Nor are we the measure of anything, not even ourselves.

I left the construction field in my mid-twenties to go to college. I thought I wanted to study what we now call computer science but discovered I didn't have a very good idea about what I wanted because I found information systems unsatisfying (or at least the curriculum prescribed by the college). I changed my major to journalism, then philosophy, finally settling on sociology and psychology. Learning programming languages and hardware design and repair provides a basic, introductory education in logic and feeds the fallen notion we are creators in ways that are much different than those found in construction (in construction each day provides visible evidence something has been accomplished or "made"). Journalism asserts the validity of rhetoric (in the classic sense of that word) and subjectivity. The latter is done paradoxically because the ethics code of journalism requires objectivity but in practice journalism has a long history of philosophical and political partisanship and utilitarian ethic (the ends justify the means) and, therefore, its own form of hubris. From there I changed my major to philosophy and began reading the philosophers and their (purported) philosophies beginning with the ancient Greeks (Thales, Anaximander, Pythagoras, Heraclitus, etc.) all the way through those in the early half of 20th century (Sartre, Russell, Foucault, Rand, etc.). Formal logic is part of that curriculum. Another lesson learned there is that the common understanding of the philosophers with the greatest name recognition is either woefully inadequate or just plain wrong (most self-styled capitalists aren't capitalists and most self-styled Marxists aren't Marxist; they're just bullies). The most important lesson learned from those studies is a bit shocking: humans have a lot of questions but none of the answers. Another remarkable lesson learned from the history of philosophy is how the "center" of the universe gradually moved from the gods (or God) to Man. The social sciences take subjectivism, relativism, and hubris to levels that make computer science, journalism and even philosophy look sophomoric. Those in the "hard" sciences sometimes call those in the social sciences "empire builders." The term is used pejoratively in mockery of the notion the social sciences are science at all, and the practitioners' misguided belief the institution can improve upon culture and society to create utopia. Having studied anthropology, sociology, psychology, social work (with a little education science thrown in), it's quite clear the move from God as the center of the universe to Man as the center of the universe to the mind being the center of the universe is established, and established in all the institutions (academia, business, industry, politics, religion, etc.) even the Church to a significant extent!

And then God rent the fabric of time and space and summoned me to His Son. What I learned from that is that humanity, individually and collectively, is amazingly ignorant. This, from our perspective as Christians, is a consequence of sin. We imagine (and "imagine," not "think" in any rational sense, is the correct word to use) we know more than we do, are more important than we are and are, therefore the measure of everything. I asked a Christian PhD mentor of mine who he reconciled what we're taught in psychology philosophy with Christianity, and he affirmed what I knew intuitively: humans have all the question. God (and only God) has all the answers.

The only positive aspect of all of this is that we as a species have (largely) moved through the postmodern foolishness and post-postmodern foolishness to a point where the gospel might gain new ground (if the Church can only either reform or discard Dispensationalism ), God willing. With hope, I see the time in which we now live as an opportunity. That hopefulness aside, there's a subtle but important distinction with which we should be mindful (no irony intended). Instead of the word "universe" Christians think in terms of creation. Secular science (hubristically) tells us the universe is all there is, and that if there is a God then physics (along with an assist from the other hard science) will explain all that He's done and God Himself. The Christian knows there is more to this creation than the universe, more to creation than is possible for finite humanity to know and understand on this side of the grave, and there is an infinite and personal God (He is a Who and not a what) and, in the words of theologian Francis Schaeffer, He is there and He is NOT silent.

Humanity does know itself. How could it possibly be the metric ("center") of anything?







(apologies for the length)
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[Josheb]

In creation, what we see and what we don't see, man is never the center of the universe.

Prove or disprove this statement.

Just this morning I was reading Miroslav Volf assert something reinforcing this op (or vice versa). Quoting Luther he states,

"The love of God does not find, but creates, that which is pleasing to it. The love of man comes into being through that which is pleasing to it."​

This is true of everything good in creation and humanity. Existence - creation's existence, humanity's existence - is an act of uncaused grace from outside what secular humanity calls the "universe". If what we believe is true, then Christ, not Man, is the fulcrum of creation upon which everything else moves.

 

[Arial]

Just this morning I was reading Miroslav Volf assert something reinforcing this op (or vice versa). Quoting Luther he states,

"The love of God does not find, but creates, that which is pleasing to it. The love of man comes into being through that which is pleasing to it."​

This is true of everything good in creation and humanity. Existence - creation's existence, humanity's existence - is an act of uncaused grace from outside what secular humanity calls the "universe". If what we believe is true, then Christ, not Man, is the fulcrum of creation upon which everything else moves.

Yes. Which brings to mind one little word in a scripture that we so often slide right over missing the impact and foundational truth.
Col; 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things were created through him and FOR him.

 

[Josheb]

Yes. Which brings to mind one little word in a scripture that we so often slide right over missing the impact and foundational truth.
Col; 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities---all things were created through him and FOR him.

How selfish of him .

 

[CrowCross]

Man is definitely NOT the center of the universe, but some clarification is warranted.

When the phrase "center of the universe" is used it generally means the reference point by which meaning is measured.

I see Jesus as the center of the universe.

 

[Josheb]

If what we believe is true, then Christ, not Man, is the fulcrum of creation upon which everything else moves.

I see Jesus as the center of the universe.

Yep.