Behold, I stand at the door and knock

[Carbon]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

I understand this verse not as an invitation to the lost sinner, not a first act of conversion, but the consequence of it. In which man, who being dead, has been made alive ought to and may co-operate with God;'s grace.

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. Romans 6:13.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Gal 5:25.

Those who give way to Christ and his word and open their heart to Him, he will come into him in communion with grace and Spirit.

Songs 5:2
I slept, but my heart was awake.
A sound! My beloved is knocking.
“Open to me, my sister, my love,
my dove, my perfect one,
for my head is wet with dew,
my locks with the drops of the night.”


Thoughts?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

Thoughts?

I've always thought there should be a comma in there somewhere. I believe it was Voddie Baucham that commented something to the effect of:

"Knocking at someone's door was a warning of impending doom. It was ( and still is ) a rude practice in the east only done by authorities about to kick the door down. Normally one would stand outside the dwelling and call to the people within."

So..."Behold I stand at the door and knock, <--comma ( Jesus is about to kick the door down ) if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will..." rather than kicking it down and sending them off to..."jail".

 

[Carbon]

I've always thought there should be a comma in there somewhere. I believe it was Voddie Baucham that commented something to the effect of:

"Knocking at someone's door was a warning of impending doom. It was ( and still is ) a rude practice in the east only done by authorities about to kick the door down. Normally one would stand outside the dwelling and call to the people within."

So..."Behold I stand at the door and knock, <--comma ( Jesus is about to kick the door down ) if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will..." rather than kicking it down and sending them off to..."jail".

hut hum, pardon me. That was supposed to be funny, right?

Oh and about Voddie? He is awesome!

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

hut hum, pardon me. That was supposed to be funny, right?

Oh and about Voddie? He is awesome!

No...not really. And Voddie is awesome

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

I understand this verse not as an invitation to the lost sinner, not a first act of conversion, but the consequence of it. In which man, who being dead, has been made alive ought to and may co-operate with God;'s grace.

Thoughts?

In checking through all my normal haunts I could not find the video or author of my previous remark. Too bad. Perhaps at some point someone who is actually familiar with the customs of the region can comment on it. However...

In every case the commentaries I've read on this verse point out the fact that Jesus is lowering the boom on church after church. In fact only one of the 7 gets a good remark.

The fact that Jesus has to *knock* on the door of one of His churches...should bring a chill up your spine. I'll leave it there.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Here is an example:

Revelation 3:20 | Tabletalk

This knock is a knock of discipline and judgment on a church that has forgotten its mission.

tabletalkmagazine.com

 

[Carbon]

Here is an example:

Revelation 3:20 | Tabletalk

This knock is a knock of discipline and judgment on a church that has forgotten its mission.

tabletalkmagazine.com

Interesting. Ill have to read it again. But at least we agree it is meant for the church, not the lost sinner and Jesus asking to come in.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Interesting. Ill have to read it again. But at least we agree it is meant for the church, not the lost sinner and Jesus asking to come in.

Yep.

 

[armylngst]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

I understand this verse not as an invitation to the lost sinner, not a first act of conversion, but the consequence of it. In which man, who being dead, has been made alive ought to and may co-operate with God;'s grace.

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. Romans 6:13.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Gal 5:25.

Those who give way to Christ and his word and open their heart to Him, he will come into him in communion with grace and Spirit.

Songs 5:2
I slept, but my heart was awake.
A sound! My beloved is knocking.
“Open to me, my sister, my love,
my dove, my perfect one,
for my head is wet with dew,
my locks with the drops of the night.”


Thoughts?

John MacArthur says that this is Jesus locked outside of the church, and He is knocking on the door to be let back into the church. Given the context, this can be what it is speaking to.

 

[makesends]

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. Revelation 3:20.

I understand this verse not as an invitation to the lost sinner, not a first act of conversion, but the consequence of it. In which man, who being dead, has been made alive ought to and may co-operate with God;'s grace.

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. Romans 6:13.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Gal 5:25.

Those who give way to Christ and his word and open their heart to Him, he will come into him in communion with grace and Spirit.

Songs 5:2
I slept, but my heart was awake.
A sound! My beloved is knocking.
“Open to me, my sister, my love,
my dove, my perfect one,
for my head is wet with dew,
my locks with the drops of the night.”


Thoughts?

To me it is plain and simply a call for fellowship, time spent enjoying each other as at a meal. I see no implication that it is regeneration nor salvation. The rule of spiritually dead inability still prevails —if this was opening the door so the Lord could come in and save me, I would not have been able to open the door. Seems to me, anyway, that it would take more than beating on a door to wake the dead.

Contextual to Rev 3:20 is his rebuke to the church of Laodicea, who can't seem to care much about much. Immediately before is vs 19: "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent." To me it seems abundantly evident that he is talking to the Elect, and if not only the Elect, to those who think they are covered by being non-committal. He shows that there will be more than rebuke for them, and if they are not his, it seems to me implied, that they will not be able to handle what's coming.

Considering the scope of text between the "letters to the churches" and the last part of Revelation, it might be a daunting notion to suppose that his words to the churches are continued at the end, but Revelation 22:11-12, says, "Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.” Can you imagine that awful pronouncement on those whose hearts are still at enmity with him, upon whom he has not set his love?

 

[fastfredy0]

To me it is plain and simply a call for fellowship, time spent enjoying each other as at a meal. I see no implication that it is regeneration nor salvation.

Hmm, that never occurred to me. Interesting.

Immediately before is vs 19: "Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent." To me it seems abundantly evident that he is talking to the Elect

Excellent evidence.

21 He who overcomes [the world through believing that Jesus is the Son of God], I will grant to him [the privilege] to sit beside Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down beside My Father on His throne. AMP
The AMP seems to think verses are salvific.

16 So because you are lukewarm (spiritually useless), and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth [rejecting you with disgust]. ... spitting out of Christ mouth seems salvific.... I suppose Christians that don't abide in Christ could be spit out and still saved but seems this is salvific.

Interesting... heck, you got me on the fence .... if I'm betting even odds I still go with verse 20 being salvific. I'll have to check my exegesis batting average to see if betting on me is a good bet.

 

[makesends]

Hmm, that never occurred to me. Interesting.


Excellent evidence.

21 He who overcomes [the world through believing that Jesus is the Son of God], I will grant to him [the privilege] to sit beside Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down beside My Father on His throne. AMP
The AMP seems to think verses are salvific.

16 So because you are lukewarm (spiritually useless), and neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of My mouth [rejecting you with disgust]. ... spitting out of Christ mouth seems salvific.... I suppose Christians that don't abide in Christ could be spit out and still saved but seems this is salvific.

Interesting... heck, you got me on the fence .... if I'm betting even odds I still go with verse 20 being salvific. I'll have to check my exegesis batting average to see if betting on me is a good bet.

Lol, I'd say no more salvific than Hebrews 6! In the end, I have to come to the conclusions that the warnings against falling away are altogether valid, but also, logically and biblically, I have to say that whoever God has chosen will not finally fall away. Simple, really. Thus, I MUST obey, whether I just was obeying or not.

Anyhow, I've found a lot more Joy in watching God bringing his plans to fruition than in watching my Christian performance. This life is about him, not me.

 

[fastfredy0]

This life is about him, not me.

AMEN ... that is a lesson that few Christian understand and fewer apply and thus the root of all types of error. (Of course, I could be in error ... lol)

I have to say that whoever God has chosen will not finally fall away.

Thank goodness. So, whatever I do, whatever I get wrong, whatever I don't understand ... from a salvific viewpoint "I CAN'T BLOW IT". *phew*

Aside: I agree with you alot ... that might be a bad omen for you.

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

EXEGESIS:

 

[KatarinaVonBora]

Here is an example:

Revelation 3:20 | Tabletalk

This knock is a knock of discipline and judgment on a church that has forgotten its mission.

tabletalkmagazine.com

I use TableTalk every day!

 

[GeneZ]

The knocking is Divine discipline God uses for all believers who slacked away from growing in grace and truth.

That can be found here:

Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent." Revelation 3:19

What happens if that believer fails to heed the warning discipline?

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask,
and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." 1 John 5:16

Some believers die very sad and unhappy deaths....

 

[Carbon]

The knocking is Divine discipline God uses for all believers who slacked away from growing in grace and truth.

That can be found here:

Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent." Revelation 3:19

Are you slowly becoming a Calvinist?

What happens if that believer fails to heed the warning discipline?

If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask,
and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that." 1 John 5:16

Some believers die very sad and unhappy deaths....

Hhmmm, ......

 

[GeneZ]

Are you slowly becoming a Calvinist?

When Calvinism is right, it is right.

When Calvinism wandered away from truth?

I stay with the corrected version.

Men like Calvin were pioneering a new path in the Christian way of life.
Like all pioneers, some conclusions he made about what he came across were not yet properly understood.

The tyrannical RCC (that the Reformers were escaping from) had a very closed minded, arrogant, and unreasonable, even brutal mind set.
It was a prevailing cultural norm.

Calvin seemed open minded in comparison...
But, that molded religious feel was still in the religious culture of the day.

 

[Carbon]

When Calvinism is right, it is right.

When Calvinism wandered away from truth?

I stay with the corrected version.

Men like Calvin were pioneering a new path in the Christian way of life.
Like all pioneers, some conclusions he made about what he came across were not yet properly understood.

The tyrannical RCC (that the Reformers were escaping from) had a very closed minded, arrogant, and unreasonable, even brutal mind set.
It was a prevailing cultural norm.

Calvin seemed open minded in comparison...
But, that molded religious feel was still in the religious culture of the day.

I'll accept that from you for now my friend.