Are you Born again? Then here you are...

[Behold]

Reader.

This Thread shows "us" the born again, a few wonderful and eternal realities.
This Thread is a short SS lesson written to/for the born again... It does not pertain to the the water baptized and religious who are not born again.
-

The Born again... :

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ"

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ'

"i am seated in heavenly places, in Christ".........right now.

I am..... "As Jesus is, so are the born again, in THIS World".......... right now.

I am. "one with God".... now and forever.....= Having Eternal life.


See all that?
You are all that, you have all that... and more.....if you are born again.

LOOK>.

You are :

1.) Heir of God
2.) Joint Heir with Jesus
3.) Temple of the Holy Spirit
4.) Bone of Jesus's bone and flesh of Jesus's Flesh
5.) Son/Daughter of God
6.) Made Righteous
7.) Translated from Darkness. TO LIGHT.
8.) BORN AGAIN
9.) A Child of the Light.
10.) Saved from the wrath to come

And there is more..

Jesus is the """LIGHT OF THE WORD""... and "" God exists in LIGHT".... and the born again are "Children of the LIGHT"".

We are already IN the Kingdom of God, as THEY are the KOG< and we are "IN CHRIST", and "one with God"
.
See yourself?

That is How God sees us all who are born again.

See that MIND?
That BELIEF?
"That Knowledge of God" that is our "renewed mind"?

That's the renewed mind., and if you have it, then you are this..

= "As many as be Perfect".

If you have that renewed mind then you have "worked out your Salvation".

That is not about Behavior, that is about REVELATION KNOWLEDGE.... = "the renewed mind".

 

[Josheb]

If you have that renewed mind then you have "worked out your Salvation".

That is not about Behavior, that is about REVELATION KNOWLEDGE.... = "the renewed mind".

If that is true, then why did Paul write to the already-regenerate believers in Philippi to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? He does so in an explicitly stated context of what has already been accomplished (much of it attributed to their effort) then directing them toward future work.

Philippians 2:9-15
9For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure. 14Do all things without complaining or arguments; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation......

BECAUSE Jesus every knee will bow....
Just as you have (past-tense) obeyed me (Paul)....
NOW work out your salvation....
And do it with fear....
BECAUSE God works in you....
To BOTH want and work for His pleasure...
Do it without complaining or arguing....
SO you will (future-tense) prove yourself blameless and innocent, and children of God above reproach.

One of THE most fundamental aspects of every epistle is the fact they contain reproach! The epistles are filled with correction. While the readers may have been considered dispositionally perfect, purified, washed clean, etc. they are not even close in practice. Paul starts with what God has done through Christ and the eventual, inevitable end-point of Christ worshipped surrendering everything to his Father, and in the interim the Philippian convert working the work God is working in them.

 

[Soyeong]

If that is true, then why did Paul write to the already-regenerate believers in Philippi to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"? He does so in an explicitly stated context of what has already been accomplished (much of it attributed to their effort) then directing them toward future work.

Philippians 2:9-15
9For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure. 14Do all things without complaining or arguments; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation......

BECAUSE Jesus every knee will bow....
Just as you have (past-tense) obeyed me (Paul)....
NOW work out your salvation....
And do it with fear....
BECAUSE God works in you....
To BOTH want and work for His pleasure...
Do it without complaining or arguing....
SO you will (future-tense) prove yourself blameless and innocent, and children of God above reproach.

One of THE most fundamental aspects of every epistle is the fact they contain reproach! The epistles are filled with correction. While the readers may have been considered dispositionally perfect, purified, washed clean, etc. they are not even close in practice. Paul starts with what God has done through Christ and the eventual, inevitable end-point of Christ worshipped surrendering everything to his Father, and in the interim the Philippian convert working the work God is working in them.

Our salvation would be incomplete if it were just from the penalty of sin while we continued to live in sin, so our salvation must also include that, which is what Philippians 2:12 is referring to. In Titus 2:14, Jesus did not give himself just to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works. In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness are not born again.

 

[Soyeong]

Reader.

This Thread shows "us" the born again, a few wonderful and eternal realities.
This Thread is a short SS lesson written to/for the born again... It does not pertain to the the water baptized and religious who are not born again.
-

The Born again... :

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ"

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ'

"i am seated in heavenly places, in Christ".........right now.

I am..... "As Jesus is, so are the born again, in THIS World".......... right now.

I am. "one with God".... now and forever.....= Having Eternal life.


See all that?
You are all that, you have all that... and more.....if you are born again.

LOOK>.

You are :

1.) Heir of God
2.) Joint Heir with Jesus
3.) Temple of the Holy Spirit
4.) Bone of Jesus's bone and flesh of Jesus's Flesh
5.) Son/Daughter of God
6.) Made Righteous
7.) Translated from Darkness. TO LIGHT.
8.) BORN AGAIN
9.) A Child of the Light.
10.) Saved from the wrath to come

And there is more..

Jesus is the """LIGHT OF THE WORD""... and "" God exists in LIGHT".... and the born again are "Children of the LIGHT"".

We are already IN the Kingdom of God, as THEY are the KOG< and we are "IN CHRIST", and "one with God"
.
See yourself?

That is How God sees us all who are born again.

See that MIND?
That BELIEF?
"That Knowledge of God" that is our "renewed mind"?

That's the renewed mind., and if you have it, then you are this..

= "As many as be Perfect".

If you have that renewed mind then you have "worked out your Salvation".

That is not about Behavior, that is about REVELATION KNOWLEDGE.... = "the renewed mind".

In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again. To become righteous means to become someone who practices righteousness, so it is in accurate to describe someone as righteous if they do not practice righteousness. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so it is inaccurate for someone to consider themselves to be in Christ if they do not practice righteousness. In Proverbs 6:23, for the commandments are a lamp, the law is a light, and the reproofs of instruction are the way of life. The is no point in having knowledge if it it has no influence on your behavior, but rather we should learn to do.

 

[Josheb]

Our salvation would be incomplete if it were just from the penalty of sin while we continued to live in sin, so our salvation must also include that, which is what Philippians 2:12 is referring to. In Titus 2:14, Jesus did not give himself just to redeem us from all lawlessness, but also to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works. In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness are not born again.

And that is relevant to my op-reply...... how?


Is this opening post intended to assert sinless perfectionism?

 

[Soyeong]

And that is relevant to my op-reply...... how?


Is this opening post intended to assert sinless perfectionism?

I spoke in regard to what Philippians 2:12 is speaking about.

 

[Josheb]

I spoke in regard to what Philippians 2:12 is speaking about.

First let me correct my prior post because I confused you with the op.

Because Post #3 says our salvation must also include being incomplete if it were just from the penalty of sin while we continued to live in sin, so I'd like to know if Post #3 is intended to assert sinless perfectionism?

Paul appears to apply the "work out your salvation" instruction to himself in the very next chapter when he wrote, he had not then obtained power of Christ's resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, and the resurrection itself. He had suffered the loss of everything and considered those items rubbish....

Philippians 3:8-16
...so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and [f]the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already [g]grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that [h]for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead. I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore, all who are https://biblehub.com/nasb_/philippians/3.htm#fnmature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; however, let’s keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

We also know Paul and Peter sinned after their conversion.


So I'd like to better understand Post #3. Is sinless perfectionism being asserted? If not would you mind clarifying the point of that post? Thx

 

[Josheb]

"That Knowledge of God" that is our "renewed mind"?

That's the renewed mind., and if you have it, then you are this..

= "As many as be Perfect".

If you have that renewed mind then you have "worked out your Salvation".

That is not about Behavior, that is about REVELATION KNOWLEDGE.... = "the renewed mind".

If the Christians in Philippi had a renewed mind and had worked out their salvation thereof, then why is Paul tells them to work out their salvation.

Where did the idea the knowledge of God is synonymous with a renewed mind or revelation knowledge is equal to the renewed mind originate? Paul told the Christians in Rome who possessed the knowledge of God to not be conformed to the world but instead be transformed by the renewing of their mind. How could he do that if they already had a renewed mind because they had the knowledge of God?

 

[Soyeong]

First let me correct my prior post because I confused you with the op.

Because Post #3 says our salvation must also include being incomplete if it were just from the penalty of sin while we continued to live in sin, so I'd like to know if Post #3 is intended to assert sinless perfectionism?

No, post #3 had nothing to do with sinless perfectionism. God's law came with instructions for what to do when His people sinned, so it never required us to have perfect obedience and there is nothing that we can earn as a wage even if we manage to have perfect obedience. If we needed to have perfect obedience for some strange reason, then repenting after we have sinned wouldn't do us any good, so the fact that repentance has value means that we do not need to have perfect obedience.

Our salvation is spoken about in the past, present, and future tense, so have been saved from the penalty of our sins (Ephesians 2:8), we are being saved from continuing to live in sin (Philippians 2:12), and we will be saved from God's wrath on the day of the Lord (Romans 5:9-10). Likewise, in Titus 2:14, it refers to past and present aspects of our salvation. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to God's law through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to God's law. For example, honoring our parents through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not honoring our parents, and this is the way that we work out our salvation.

Paul appears to apply the "work out your salvation" instruction to himself in the very next chapter when he wrote, he had not then obtained power of Christ's resurrection, the fellowship of His sufferings, and the resurrection itself. He had suffered the loss of everything and considered those items rubbish....

Philippians 3:8-16
...so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and [f]the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already [g]grasped it all or have already become perfect, but I press on if I may also take hold of that [h]for which I was even taken hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers and sisters, I do not regard myself as having taken hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead. I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. Therefore, all who are https://biblehub.com/nasb_/philippians/3.htm#fnmature, let’s have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that to you as well; however, let’s keep living by that same standard to which we have attained.

We also know Paul and Peter sinned after their conversion.


So I'd like to better understand Post #3. Is sinless perfectionism being asserted? If not would you mind clarifying the point of that post? Thx

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law, which means that Philippians 3:8-16 should not be understood as saying that obedience to God's law is rubbish and we just need to know him instead. Rather, Paul had been obeying God's law, but he had not been focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law, and that is what he counted as rubbish.

 

[Josheb]

No, post #3 had nothing to do with sinless perfectionism.

Thank you.

Nothing more was asked.

Which brings me to my next inquiry. How are you and I going to have a discussion if 1) the foundational context for the op is not established, 2) I cannot expect questions asked to be answered directly and must endure multiple posts in order to get a simple, straight-forward answer immediately, and 3) you pile on a lot of extraneous information not requested?

 

[EarlyActs]

Reader.

This Thread shows "us" the born again, a few wonderful and eternal realities.
This Thread is a short SS lesson written to/for the born again... It does not pertain to the the water baptized and religious who are not born again.
-

The Born again... :

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ"

"I am the righteousness of God...In Christ'

"i am seated in heavenly places, in Christ".........right now.

I am..... "As Jesus is, so are the born again, in THIS World".......... right now.

I am. "one with God".... now and forever.....= Having Eternal life.


See all that?
You are all that, you have all that... and more.....if you are born again.

LOOK>.

You are :

1.) Heir of God
2.) Joint Heir with Jesus
3.) Temple of the Holy Spirit
4.) Bone of Jesus's bone and flesh of Jesus's Flesh
5.) Son/Daughter of God
6.) Made Righteous
7.) Translated from Darkness. TO LIGHT.
8.) BORN AGAIN
9.) A Child of the Light.
10.) Saved from the wrath to come

And there is more..

Jesus is the """LIGHT OF THE WORD""... and "" God exists in LIGHT".... and the born again are "Children of the LIGHT"".

We are already IN the Kingdom of God, as THEY are the KOG< and we are "IN CHRIST", and "one with God"
.
See yourself?

That is How God sees us all who are born again.

See that MIND?
That BELIEF?
"That Knowledge of God" that is our "renewed mind"?

That's the renewed mind., and if you have it, then you are this..

= "As many as be Perfect".

If you have that renewed mind then you have "worked out your Salvation".

That is not about Behavior, that is about REVELATION KNOWLEDGE.... = "the renewed mind".

The first time the expression was used, it was to a person who thought that his ancestral lineage was nearly the most important spiritual asset he had.

But Jesus wasn't even trying to get him to be born again. He wanted Nic (Jn 3) to be born 'from above' so that Nic could see what the kingdom of God was, as a leader in Judaism. In order to see it, Nic needed to realize his ancestral lineage didn't mean much.

'From above' may also be 'from back at the beginning' meaning, the way Abraham believed, saw the Gospel in the stars, about Christ's day, and his righteousness. The important point was that it was different from the ancestral lineage.

 

[Soyeong]

Thank you.

Nothing more was asked.

Which brings me to my next inquiry. How are you and I going to have a discussion if 1) the foundational context for the op is not established, 2) I cannot expect questions asked to be answered directly and must endure multiple posts in order to get a simple, straight-forward answer immediately, and 3) you pile on a lot of extraneous information not requested?

You you spoke about Philippians 2:12, so I responded to that, you asked me whether I was asserting sinless perfectionism, so spoke about my view of it, you asked me to clarify my point in post #3, so I did that, and you spoke about Philippians 3:8-16, so I responded to that, which means that if we can't have a conversation, then it is because of your attitude.

 

[Josheb]

You you spoke about Philippians 2:12, so I responded to that...

Yes, but what I spoke about I spoke to @Behold specifically about something Behold posted, NOT YOU. Unless you believe you can speak for Behold about Behold's beliefs you've got no business answering someone else's question.

....you asked me whether I was asserting sinless perfectionism, so spoke about my view of it...

Yes, and I had to ask more than once before I got an answer.

...you asked me to clarify my point in post #3...

No, I didn't. That is all in your imagination. I asked how Post 3 is relevant to the op and Post 6 does NOT answer either question asked.

...so I did that, and you spoke about Philippians 3:8-16, so I responded to that...

Philippians 3:8-16 was broached simply and solely to clarify the one single question asked about sinless perfectionism that took several posts before an answer was posted..... and the actual matter of the Philippians 3 text was NOT answered. Post 9 AGAIN contains content not requested that has absolutely nothing with what was asked.

The last three (or four) exchanges shouldn't exist. The answer to the question about sinless perfectionism should have taken one post with one two-letter word: "No." But that is not what happened and did not not-happen because of my "attitude." And now I am being gaslighted....

...which means that if we can't have a conversation, then it is because of your attitude.

Bye


Next time I ask a question, just answer it. Directly. Concisely. Op-relevantly.

 

[Soyeong]

Yes, but what I spoke about I spoke to @Behold specifically about something Behold posted, NOT YOU. Unless you believe you can speak for Behold about Behold's beliefs you've got no business answering someone else's question.

I was not speaking for Behold's beliefs, but was simply commenting on your response, that's the way that public forums work.

Yes, and I had to ask more than once before I got an answer.

I said nothing remotely close to asserting sinless perfectionism, so I thought it was sufficient to say that I spoke in regard to what Philippians 2:12 is speaking about, but clearly it was not, so I directly answered no in my next reply.

No, I didn't. That is all in your imagination. I asked how Post 3 is relevant to the op and Post 6 does NOT answer either question asked.

You said:

"So I'd like to better understand Post #3. Is sinless perfectionism being asserted? If not would you mind clarifying the point of that post? Thx"

I was not asserting sinless perfectionism, so I clarified the point of post #3 as you directly asked me to do, and then you got an attitude about me doing what you asked.

Philippians 3:8-16 was broached simply and solely to clarify the one single question asked about sinless perfectionism that took several posts before an answer was posted..... and the actual matter of the Philippians 3 text was NOT answered. Post 9 AGAIN contains content not requested that has absolutely nothing with what was asked.

You said:

"He had suffered the loss of everything and considered those items rubbish.... "

So I spoke in regard to what he was considering to be rubbish. Philippians 3:8-16 has nothing to do with sinless perfectionism.

The last three (or four) exchanges shouldn't exist. The answer to the question about sinless perfectionism should have taken one post with one two-letter word: "No." But that is not what happened and did not not-happen because of my "attitude." And now I am being gaslighted....


Bye


Next time I ask a question, just answer it. Directly. Concisely. Op-relevantly.

It took me an extra reply to directly answer no and you gave me an attitude about it. That's a reality, not gaslighting.

 

[Josheb]

You said:

I said,

Bye

And I meant it. Next time, do better so there won't be any need for you to make excuses.