Are Believers Saved Or Are Believers Not Saved Yet?

[Eleanor]

It's not "out from within" the Father (which would imply that God the Son had a beginning), but out from beside the Father; however, they are certainly of the same nature.

No, God is without beginning or end, and the generation of his Son is without beginning or end.

 

[Eleanor]

Why promote the wrath of God (Roman 1)?

I give up. . .why?

 

[Mr GLee]

I give up. . .why?

Thanks I would offer

Note . . .Not seen (invisible)
Note . . . That see (visible)
Note . . .The Power of faith or believing God giving us His unseen understanding, Our new faith of Christ labor of love.

It would appear you seemed confused between the invisible things called faith of Christ the husband. (the Faithful Creator"

Let there be and the spiritual invisible became visible (sight) . The law of faith)

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him (not visible) from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,(visible) even his eternal power(not visible) and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:Because that, when they knew God,(not visible) they glorified him not as God,(not visible) neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,And changed the glory of the uncorruptible (not visible) God into an image (visible) made like to corruptible man,(visible Jesus the Son of man ) and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.Wherefore God (not visible)also gave them (visible) up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God (not visible)into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (visible) more than the Creator,(not visible) who is blessed for ever. Amen.

God is not a man as us dying mankind we are not to seek after lying signs to wonder after Satan would have mankind beleive God is a dying Jewish man as King of kings.

Now you see him now you don't .A God that hides himself from deceivers after the name Jacob

Isaiah 8:17 And I will wait upon the Lord, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.

Sends a strong delusion to those who believe after the sign and lying wonders king . . so they can keep on wondering in Limbo. . . to no end. . .

 

[Eleanor]

Thanks I would offer

God is not a man as us dying mankind

You are in unbelief of the NT word of God in Jn 1:1, 14.

We have no basis for discussion

 

[Mr GLee]

You are in unbelief of the NT word of God in Jn 1:1, 14.

We have no basis for discussion

Hi I would offer .Believers are not saved by that which we know or think we do. the faith (power of God) by which we can believe God works and abides in us. . . . . not of dying flesh and blood.

I would think it could make a good discussion. Its not a salvation thing or "who is the greatest" as if Christ who works in sons of God (Christians) was served by the dying hands of mankind .

The apostles (sent messengers) in the beginning would become confused whenever in parables Christ through Jesus the Son of man spoke a parable hiding the understanding of the Father .

On one occasion the who group gathered themselves together to look for a new fleshly leader . He rebuked them a revealed they had no idea of the kind of spirit they of (Luke 9)

The simplicity of the gospel .Christ who is not served by the dying hands of mankind saves some of dying mankind working out the appointment to die once .Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter.

My paraphrase John 1:In the beginning was the Word, (let there be) and the Word (let there be) was with (from) God, and the Word was God ( alone good) . the golden (faith) good... . . .The good living law of faith not of ourselves dying mankind


My paraphrase John 1:14 And the Word was made (created) flesh, and dwelt among us, (Emanuel) and we beheld his glory, (Eternal Unseen) the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, (the invisible head of the bride, the church) full of grace and truth.

Faith. . . the living mystery word .Pray we use it as it is written wisely .

 

[Eleanor]

Hi I would offer .Believers are not saved by that which we know or think we do. the faith (power of God) by which we can believe God works and abides in us. . . . . not of dying flesh and blood.

I would think it could make a good discussion. Its not a salvation thing or "who is the greatest" as if Christ who works in sons of God (Christians) was served by the dying hands of mankind .

The apostles (sent messengers) in the beginning would become confused whenever in parables Christ through Jesus the Son of man spoke a parable hiding the understanding of the Father .

On one occasion the who group gathered themselves together to look for a new fleshly leader . He rebuked them a revealed they had no idea of the kind of spirit they of (Luke 9)

The simplicity of the gospel .Christ who is not served by the dying hands of mankind saves some of dying mankind working out the appointment to die once .Yoked with him our daily burdens can be lighter.

My paraphrase John 1:In the beginning was the Word, (let there be) and the Word (let there be) was with (from) God, and the Word was God ( alone good) . the golden (faith) good... . . .The good living law of faith not of ourselves dying mankind


My paraphrase John 1:14 And the Word was made (created) flesh, and dwelt among us, (Emanuel) and we beheld his glory, (Eternal Unseen) the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, (the invisible head of the bride, the church) full of grace and truth.

Faith. . . the living mystery word .Pray we use it as it is written wisely .

See post #104. . .

 

[Mr GLee]

See post #104. . .

Hi I would offer.

God is much more than a literal word without meaning .It does not make biblical sense. no faith.

I believe I can see it as it is written.

Have you rightly divided it ? Comparing the temporal seen ( historical) with the eternal not seen the (spiritual) understanding .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I added my paraphrase. Did you give up? How do you rightly divide that prophecy John 1? ?

Is God a word without meaning like the Charismatics (sign gifts) baby sounds where men fall backward slain in the Spirit ?

Many according to my experience in order to keep there literal understanding (what the eyes see the temporal dying) . They forfeit the 20/20 miracle prescription above (2 Corinthians 4:18)needed to rightly divide the parables. . which without Christ spoke not

God speak words. . . according to the law of his faith ."let there be" His witness "It was God alone good".

He more than a word as the teacher, comforter, guide (Christ in us) Who last but not least brings to our memory the previous things he has taught. He warns of those who say we do need dying mankind to teach us false apostles false prophets (antichrists)

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and (the bonus) bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Its a open book test .(Christ aced it) We have the rest of our lives to study and finish. .He can correct the errors daily .

We can pray give us today the hidden manna (Revelation 2:17) the unseen honey the sweet will of the Father. He informs us not to eat to much it can cause false pride .He gives us the right amount

Exodus 16:16-18 This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating

( personal food. . two walking as one )

Exodus 16:31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, (pearl) white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Psalm 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

We can preach. He alone is the one good teaching master

 

[David1701]

No, God is without beginning or end, and the generation of his Son is without beginning or end.

Generation necessarily implies that there was a period before that generation. God the Son was not generated, because he has always been. He is one of the three Persons in the great I AM.

Jesus' physical body was generated, not his eternal sonship.

 

[Eleanor]

Hi I would offer.

God is much more than a literal word without meaning .It does not make biblical sense. no faith.

I believe I can see it as it is written.

Have you rightly divided it ? Comparing the temporal seen ( historical) with the eternal not seen the (spiritual) understanding .

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I added my paraphrase. Did you give up? How do you rightly divide that prophecy John 1? ?

Is God a word without meaning like the Charismatics (sign gifts) baby sounds where men fall backward slain in the Spirit ?

Many according to my experience in order to keep there literal understanding (what the eyes see the temporal dying) . They forfeit the 20/20 miracle prescription above (2 Corinthians 4:18)needed to rightly divide the parables. . which without Christ spoke not

God speak words. . . according to the law of his faith ."let there be" His witness "It was God alone good".

He more than a word as the teacher, comforter, guide (Christ in us) Who last but not least brings to our memory the previous things he has taught. He warns of those who say we do need dying mankind to teach us false apostles false prophets (antichrists)

John 14:25-26 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and (the bonus) bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Its a open book test .(Christ aced it) We have the rest of our lives to study and finish. .He can correct the errors daily .

We can pray give us today the hidden manna (Revelation 2:17) the unseen honey the sweet will of the Father. He informs us not to eat to much it can cause false pride .He gives us the right amount

Exodus 16:16-18 This is the thing which the Lord hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating

( personal food. . two walking as one )

Exodus 16:31 And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, (pearl) white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

Psalm 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

We can preach. He alone is the one good teaching master

See post #107.

 

[Eleanor]

Generation necessarily implies that there was a period before that generation.

Who made that rule?

God the Son was not generated, because he has always been. He is one of the three Persons in the great I AM.

Correct. . .God the Son was not generated, he is always being generated, without beginning and without end.

Jesus' physical body was generated, not his eternal sonship.

See posts #101.

You don't understand Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8. .

 

[Mr GLee]

See post #107.

See below

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Eleanor]

See below

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

See posts #101, #104.

 

[David1701]

Who made that rule?

Correct. . .God the Son was not generated, he is always being generated, without beginning and without end.

See posts #101.

.

If God the Son is "being generated", then he is not God, but merely something generated (which means, "brought into existence") by God. Do you honestly not realise this?

You don't understand Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8.

On the contrary; you are the one who does not understand. What you are claiming verges on blasphemy.

 

[Josheb]

Are believers saved or are believers not saved yet?

Yes.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. KJV

So those that believe the preaching of the cross are saved because it pleased God to save those that believe the preaching of the cross.

That is true but it is also selective. A number of other verses phrase salvation as a future occurrence.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15
Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

That salvation is what "will be," it is in the future. Other examples are...

Mark 13:13
You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Romans 5:9-10
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Corinthians 5:5
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

And then there is the more prosess-oriented report, like,

2 Corinthians 2:14-16
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place. For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?

And to the degree this is all a function of God's eternal purpose for creation, a consequence of truths He spoke prophetically long before any of it happened there is also a past component of salvation. Those who are saved and will be saved were always going to be saved simply because God had declared salvation would occur among those He had chosen for that purpose and outcome.



Therefore, the whole-scripture position is all three: we are saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. No one condition exists mutually exclusive of the others. Correct and sound doctrines of salvation embrace and assert all three, not one over the other.

 

[Eleanor]

If God the Son is "being generated", then he is not God, but merely something generated (which means, "brought into existence") by God. Do you honestly not realise this?

If the Son is being generated, then he is God, for God can generate only his own nature--divine (Godhood).

On the contrary; you are the one who does not understand. What you are claiming verges on blasphemy.

Sorry. . .NT Trinitarian doctrine is that the Son is eternally generated ( Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8).

 

[David1701]

If the Son is being generated, then he is God, for God can generate only his own nature--divine (Godhood).

God generated (brought into existence) the heavens, the earth, the plants, the animals, mankind, etc., so you are very wrong in trying to limit what God can generate to something with his own nature.

Sorry. . .NT Trinitarian doctrine is that the Son is eternally generated ( Jn 8:42, 16:27, 28, 17:8).

John 8:42 (Webster) Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

There is nothing here about God the Son being brought into existence (generated).

John 16:27
27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came from God.
28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

There is also nothing here about the second Person of the Trinity being brought into existence.

John 17:8 For I have given to them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Nor is there anything in this verse about God bringing God the Son into existence.

I'm Trinitarian and I have NEVER heard or read any Trinitarian teach that the Father brought the second Person of the Trinity into existence.

Wait, I've just recalled that I have heard it (once), from someone at a Bible college who claimed to be a prophet and who said that God had revealed to him that, some time in eternity past, God split himself into three; and that, at some time in the future, he will go back to being one Person again.

I challenged him as to where in the Bible he found this doctrine. He stuttered, "Uh, in, in the Bible?", then went quiet.

 

[Eleanor]

God generated (brought into existence) the heavens, the earth, the plants, the animals, mankind, etc., so you are very wrong in trying to limit what God can generate to something with his own nature.

Look up the meaning of the word "generate."

 

[Mr GLee]

Correct. . .God the Son "was" not generated, he has always been generated without beginning and without end.

To generate is to begin give birth . God, Abba is supernatural without beginning it a wile of the devil to say he was generated

Son of God .No such thing as God the Son rather than son of God as Christians .

The Father Abba is God. Jesus the son of man. . born again Son of God. . . first born of many sons of God, Christians. he is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters.

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[David1701]

Look up the meaning of the word "generate."

Don't be insulting. I know the meaning of "to generate". Do you?

By far the most usual meaning of "to generate" is "to bring into existence"; less often, it can mean "to give or supply"; less often still, it can mean "to produce" or "to make children". None of these meanings is appropriate, when referring to the relationship between the Father and God the Son. It would be appropriate only when referring to the Father, in relation to Jesus' incarnation.

 

[Eleanor]

To generate is to begin give birth . God, Abba is supernatural without beginning it a wile of the devil to say he was generated

Son of God .No such thing as God the Son rather than son of God as Christians .

The Father Abba is God. Jesus the son of man. . born again Son of God. . . first born of many sons of God, Christians. he is not ashamed to call us brothers and sisters.

1 John 3:1-2 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

See posts #101, #104, #115.